MPAC Rounds - Shielding

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ampws
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MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by ampws »

Hi,

Been rereading Inssurrection and spotted a possible blooper.

In chapter 2 Jason is flying the exomech and it is stated that:
Even against Karinne shields, MPACS were damned effective, one of the most effective shield-piercing weapons ever devised. Myleena still hadn't found a way to stop MPACS from overloading the shield generators...
In subjugation Jason worked out a shield that bounced the MPAC round by momentarily reinforcing the magnetic envelope. He speculated on a generator worn on the arm that would generate a field that would bounce the MPAC round.

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Fel
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by Fel »

Though it hasn't received any "screen time," Jason and Myleena have been toying with that idea.

So far, it's only been marginally successful. Since MPAC rounds are encapsulated in a dynamic magnetic field, and the rounds themselves are spinning when fired like a rifle bullet, they're having trouble designing something that can interact with a magnetic shell that's both moving and rotating and making it hold its integrity against the physical force of being crushed into the reflector surface by the mass of the plasma charge it holds.

It also has a size problem. The idea works against hand-held weapons, but MPAC weapons that are more powerful, like in vehicles, have too much mass and power for the reflectors they've designed so far to work.

They're working on it though. They may eventually come up with something that works, they're both very clever.
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by miraborn »

I must say that I am continually amazed by the "realness" of this, and other fictional universes. We often find ourselves so immersed in the universe that things like the MPAC or the Star Trek Phaser or the Star Wars LightSabre become almost real to us. I know that 10 years ago, I was so immersed in Star Trek that I could debate warp field theory with the best of them. The ability for someone to create such a universe to make it so believable and "real" is truly an art. Thank you Fel.
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by lapland »

Talking about MPACs, aren't they actually a subspace type weapon. The interdictor displaces subspace and prevents its use. Does this mean MPACs and other fae weapons won't work on Keris in the future, or the imperiam for that matter?

Actually that should leave Jason's Railgun to be the weapon of choice in the imperium.
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Fel
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by Fel »

No, MPACS don't use hyperspace technologies to fire, it's the Karis pulse weapons that use hyperspace technology.

Pulse weapons fire bundles of teryons, which are a type of hypsespace energy.

The interdictor works like this: it's something like a wave generating machine. It generates a field around its target system that, in layman's terms, "slows down" all ships traveling in hyperspace within its range. It doesn't really slow them down, but think of it like that. You see, ships need what you might call a "minimum velocity" to stay in hyperspace, or they drop out (this they can do without any equipment; three dimensional objects aren't natural in hyperspace and will return to normal space as soon as the effect holding them in hyperspace, that "minimum velocity," is removed). That's how the interdictor works. The interdictor really doesn't interfere with attempts to enter hyperspace, nor does it interfere with technology that draws hyperspace-based energy out into normal space. All it does is introduce resistance into the fabric of hyperspace that overcomes the jump engines of the ships traveling through it and forces them to drop into normal space. A ship can enter hyperspace in the effect of an interdictor, but it'll drop out again about a half mile from where it entered. The interdictor lets it into hyperspace, but makes sure it can't go anywhere once it does.

Because of the way it works, the interdictor has a very small effect on Karinne and Faey technology. MPACS and gravband communications function for the Faey, it doesn't interfere with their gravometric propulsion, and doesn't interfere with their interstellar comunications. They actually use stargates for that, not hyperspace, sending signals through the stargates to maintain communications through the Imperium. On the Karinne side, it doesn't interfere with Karinne technology either. Hyperspace-based systems still function, pulse weapons still operate, and singularity power plants are still safe and functional. The only effect the interdictor has on Karinne technology is muffle some Karinne hyperspace-based communications technologies and hyperspace sensors, since the signals now have to transmit through "resistance." But they'll work around that rather quickly. They just have to amplify their signals a little more to overcome the newfound resistance in hyperspace.

There is one issue that Jason and Dahnai know about, but is risking anyway; while an interdictor is in operation, PPGs cannot eject their cores if they suffer a critical malfunction. Well, they can, but what it does is it ejects the core about three feet away from the PPG that did it instead of dumping the core out in deep space, which exposes a hot fusion reaction to normal space with no containment...and that triggers a very nasty explosion. See, PPGs use the aspect of hyperspace to its advantage. It "hurls" the core into hyperspace, whch then drops out of hyperspace once it slows down and loses "minimum velocity," which is far enough away for the explosion to do no damage. The interdictor will drop the core out of hyperspace before it goes anywhere. That's a risky thing, given what would happen if a PPG suffered a meltdown without its safety features (think the explosion in Chesapeake, but on a smaller scale), but that's a fair trade-off for the protection of being all but untouchable to anyone who jumps fleets through hyperspace.

Myleena is looking at a way to adapt PPGs to a different method of dumping cores for the Imperium, but for the Karinnes, she's looking at miniaturizing the singularity power system to PPG size to replace PPGs. Singularity systems are more powerful and much less dangerous, because all that happens when those fail is the hyperspace material that generates the plasma power escapes back into hyperspace.
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ampws
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by ampws »

I know that Myleena had a much more thorough grounding in Faey technology and as such has become the the default technical head of house. However Jason had a rather good technical bent himself, with the gestalt and Cybi he should be as current as Myleena in Faey & Karrine technology.

Jasons rather skewed technical talent should be a lot more evident than it is seeing as he has a rather larger technical bag of tricks to play with. I realise that his Grand Duke responsibilities are cutting into his time but even so I would expect more out of him.

I know he has a workshop and his fliers so where are the results of his 'noodling', as I would expect that he would use his technical abilities as a stress reliever. I can see him and Jyslin (who also has an engineering background - I think) playing around in his workshop.

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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by dellstart »

Thanks Fel , I actually understood that and I am no tech head.
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by DigitalMaestro »

Fel wrote:There is one issue that Jason and Dahnai know about, but is risking anyway; while an interdictor is in operation, PPGs cannot eject their cores if they suffer a critical malfunction. Well, they can, but what it does is it ejects the core about three feet away from the PPG that did it instead of dumping the core out in deep space, which exposes a hot fusion reaction to normal space with no containment...and that triggers a very nasty explosion. See, PPGs use the aspect of hyperspace to its advantage. It "hurls" the core into hyperspace, whch then drops out of hyperspace once it slows down and loses "minimum velocity," which is far enough away for the explosion to do no damage. The interdictor will drop the core out of hyperspace before it goes anywhere. That's a risky thing, given what would happen if a PPG suffered a meltdown without its safety features (think the explosion in Chesapeake, but on a smaller scale), but that's a fair trade-off for the protection of being all but untouchable to anyone who jumps fleets through hyperspace.
OK Fel, You've thought about this WAY too much for this not to enter the storyline somehow... Should prove interesting.

But didn't you say back in the initial chapters of Subjugation that PPG's use wormholes to dump their cores? If so, the dump would not be bothered by the interdictor... right?
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Fel
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by Fel »

I had to change it when I realized that I had a technological conflict. It's one of those things I changed on my side, but never really put out because nobody seemed to care. ;)

Wormholes can't be stably generated in areas of warped space unless they're microscopic in size...that's why the stargates are positioned so far out from the planets. The bigger the wormhole, the gate through space, the less spatial warping they can tolerate. Stargates, being so huge, can't operate in the warping gravity well of the planet, but a PPG's very function causes it to generate a massive spatial warp, just to contain the core. So, if a PPG has to eject its core, it can't use a wormhole to do it, since it can't build a wormhole large enough to eject the core inside the bubble that holds the core and prevents it from exploding. So, after I realized that, I had to come up with some other way a PPG could safely eject its core that made sense...at least within the parameters of the theoretical science I use for the story. ;)

So, yes, you're right, but there's the reason why I had to change it. ;)
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DigitalMaestro
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by DigitalMaestro »

Thanks for the explanation. Fictional Science (especially physics) is one of my bigger hobbies. I try to keep them all straight and be able to argue in each universe. It's really interesting to compare the theories of different authors and screen writers.

Long way of saying: Thanks for your indulgence :D
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furry_wolf2001b
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by furry_wolf2001b »

Yeah, thanks Fel, that answer some of the questions i had in another thread. :D
(i did not read this one first, silly me)
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by gnume »

Fel wrote:I had to change it when I realized that I had a technological conflict. It's one of those things I changed on my side, but never really put out because nobody seemed to care. ;)

Wormholes can't be stably generated in areas of warped space unless they're microscopic in size...that's why the stargates are positioned so far out from the planets. The bigger the wormhole, the gate through space, the less spatial warping they can tolerate. Stargates, being so huge, can't operate in the warping gravity well of the planet, but a PPG's very function causes it to generate a massive spatial warp, just to contain the core. So, if a PPG has to eject its core, it can't use a wormhole to do it, since it can't build a wormhole large enough to eject the core inside the bubble that holds the core and prevents it from exploding. So, after I realized that, I had to come up with some other way a PPG could safely eject its core that made sense...at least within the parameters of the theoretical science I use for the story. ;)

So, yes, you're right, but there's the reason why I had to change it. ;)
if wormholes can not handle warped space what powers Stargates ?
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Fel
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by Fel »

gnume wrote:
Fel wrote:I had to change it when I realized that I had a technological conflict. It's one of those things I changed on my side, but never really put out because nobody seemed to care. ;)

Wormholes can't be stably generated in areas of warped space unless they're microscopic in size...that's why the stargates are positioned so far out from the planets. The bigger the wormhole, the gate through space, the less spatial warping they can tolerate. Stargates, being so huge, can't operate in the warping gravity well of the planet, but a PPG's very function causes it to generate a massive spatial warp, just to contain the core. So, if a PPG has to eject its core, it can't use a wormhole to do it, since it can't build a wormhole large enough to eject the core inside the bubble that holds the core and prevents it from exploding. So, after I realized that, I had to come up with some other way a PPG could safely eject its core that made sense...at least within the parameters of the theoretical science I use for the story. ;)

So, yes, you're right, but there's the reason why I had to change it. ;)
if wormholes can not handle warped space what powers Stargates ?
Plasma, what powers just about everything else.

There can't be any gravometric disturbance either inside or outside to create a stable gate. That's why they have to put the gates outside of the gravometric well of a celestial body, and also why ships have to all but completely shut down and their power plants have to go into a shielded mode when they go through, to prevent the spatial warping on the ship from disrupting the gate.
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by gnume »

Fel wrote:
gnume wrote:
Fel wrote:I had to change it when I realized that I had a technological conflict. It's one of those things I changed on my side, but never really put out because nobody seemed to care. ;)

Wormholes can't be stably generated in areas of warped space unless they're microscopic in size...that's why the stargates are positioned so far out from the planets. The bigger the wormhole, the gate through space, the less spatial warping they can tolerate. Stargates, being so huge, can't operate in the warping gravity well of the planet, but a PPG's very function causes it to generate a massive spatial warp, just to contain the core. So, if a PPG has to eject its core, it can't use a wormhole to do it, since it can't build a wormhole large enough to eject the core inside the bubble that holds the core and prevents it from exploding. So, after I realized that, I had to come up with some other way a PPG could safely eject its core that made sense...at least within the parameters of the theoretical science I use for the story. ;)

So, yes, you're right, but there's the reason why I had to change it. ;)
if wormholes can not handle warped space what powers Stargates ?
Plasma, what powers just about everything else.

There can't be any gravometric disturbance either inside or outside to create a stable gate. That's why they have to put the gates outside of the gravometric well of a celestial body, and also why ships have to all but completely shut down and their power plants have to go into a shielded mode when they go through, to prevent the spatial warping on the ship from disrupting the gate.

another thing if they hurl the core thru hyper space what makes PPG's to explode now ?
originally it was because the wormhole was generated only by one side and the unstably caused the explosion
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Re: MPAC Rounds - Shielding

Post by ANTIcarrot »

Fel wrote:There can't be any gravometric disturbance either inside or outside to create a stable gate. That's why they have to put the gates outside of the gravometric well of a celestial body, and also why ships have to all but completely shut down and their power plants have to go into a shielded mode when they go through, to prevent the spatial warping on the ship from disrupting the gate.
Only if they use gravity based propulsion. Chemical or nuclear rockets could easily operate in that enviroment without affecting the wormhole. Just rig a PPG fusion core to super heat its phased plasma, then dephase it and spray it onto some reaction mass. Iron might be good. Get a few hundred Gs acceleration out of a missile that way. For added ammusement the missile can have a conventional engine for when it's not operating near the wormhole.

Probably scare the stuffing out of the Faey the first time they saw that.
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